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When I Catch the Coronavirus (COvid-19)
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by Matthew Ford 11th July 2022 (original
7th April 2020)
© Forward Computing and Control
Pty. Ltd. NSW Australia
All rights reserved.
Legal Disclaimer: I am not a medical professional and nothing in this article should be considered as recommending any particular course of action to anyone else.
Introduction
Coronavirus
Symptoms - Use a Thermometer and Pulse Oximeter
Effective
Early Treatment with glucocorticoid budesonide
Prophylactic
(preventative) treatment with Quercetin
NIH
Treatment guidelines – Vit C, Vit D, Zinc
Preventive
Use of Masks
Why High Dose Vitamin C?
High
Dose Vitamin C – Side Effects
Hydroxychloroquine
more deadly than Coronavirus
Why Zinc?
Prone
Lying
Avoid Sugary Foods
What
form of Vitamin C to Take
Preparations to
Take Before I Catch Coronavirus
Recipe for
Liposomal Vitamin C - 12gm daily dose for one person
Update 11th July 2022 – The use of
anti-virals
Update 11th May 2022 – The use of Quercetin +
VitC against COVID
Update 30th August 2021 – Get Vaccinated
as a first step
Update 13th July 2021 – Effective Early
Treatment with glucocorticoid budesonide
Update 3rd
October 2020 – NIH.GOV summary for treating Covid with Zinc,
Vit D, Vit D, Use of Masks for prevention.
Update 3rd
September 2020 – Random UK study discontinues use of
hydroxychloroquine as is not effective. Sources of Zinc
Update 6th
July 2020 – WHO discontinues hydroxychloroquine and
lopinavir/ritonavir treatment as is not effective
Update 16th
June 2020 – USA FDA withdraws emergancy approval of
hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine
Update 7th June 2020
– UK trial shows no benefit using hydroxychloroquine on
patients
Update 26th May 2020 – WHO temporarily
suspends trial of hydroxychloroquine over safety concerns published
in Lancet
Update 19th May 2020 – Added Covid Toes
symptom
Update 1st May 2020 – Updated
symptoms
Update 22nd April 2020 –
Hydroxychloroquine more deadly than Coronavirus
Update 21st
April 2020 – added symptoms, zinc, prone lying, sugar
Being vaccinated is my first choice for preventing or suppressing the symptoms of COVID-19. But with the new Delta/Omicrom variants that by itself may not be enough, so I am 1) wearing a mask while out, 2) taking a daily supplement of Quercetin (500mg) and Vitamin C (10gm) and 3) preparing to take the following actions if/when I become infected.
Anti-virals if over 60 years old (the anti-virals not appear to be as useful for those under 60)
The Australian
NSW health department has approved two anti-virals (as at 10th
June 2022) (local
copy here) They are Lagevrio®
(molnupiravir) and Paxlovid®
(nirmatrelvir + ritonavir). Real
world studies (local
copy) suggest Paxlovid is more effective BUT has many more
interactions with other common drugs including warfarin (local copy
for Lagevrio
and Paxlivid).
Consult
with your doctor!!
To
be effective the anti-virals must be taken within the first 5days, so
do a COVID test.
A phase2, open-label, randomised controlled trial reported in the lancet (local copy here) shows that inhaled glucocorticoid budesonide, given for a short duration, might be an effective treatment of early COVID-19 in adults. This effect, with a relative reduction of 91% of clinical deterioration is equivalent to the efficacy seen after the use of COVID-19 vaccines.
Treatment of Coronavirus (Covid-19) with High Dose Vitamin C is safe. It is currently used to treat Coronavirus in hospitals and high dose Vitamin C has been shown to help the body fight the effects of viruses. Zinc is also know as an anti-viral and is also being used the treatment of Coronavirus. I will also be lying on my stomach/side while recovering from the Coronavirus. In the mean time I will be wearing a mask when I go out and working on improving my diet. An whole orange a day, Vit D (sun exposure or table) and oysters a few time a week (for the zinc)
The coronavirus will continue to infect people until either
there is a widely available vaccine that is effective against the new variants OR
'herd immunity' is achieved, i.e. 60% or more of the surviving population (of the world) have been infected and have recovered and have immunity.
Coronavirus
Charts for various countries
So without a vaccine, 60% or more of the population will catch the virus and the virus will be around for a long time. "If we controlled the rate to 10,000 infections per day in Australia, it would take 5.7 years (to develop herd immunity).", Flinders University Professor of Medicine Nikolai Petrovsky said. (local copy here)
This means there is a better then 50% chance I will
catch Coronavirus. The only question is when and what I will do when
that happens.
I will be making Liposomal Sodium Ascorbate,
(see recipe below) and when I contract the virus I will start with
15gm (12gm equiv Vitamin C) daily and continue while there are virus
symptoms. I will also supplement with 25 to 50mg of zinc, or more if
I start loosing sense of smell or taste. Starting now I am eating a
100gm of oysters a few times a week for natural high source of Zinc
I would also take one if the anti-virals if appropiate.
Fever is usually the first symptom to arrive 38degC
(100.4F), or higher in more severe cases. In most cases it arrives
with a cough, usually a dry cough.
About 40% of cases experience
extreme fatigue. Other symptoms include loss of taste/smell, eye
infections and stomach ache.
NSW Health Testing
positive to COVID-19 and managing COVID-19 safely at home has
advice (local
copy as at July 2022) on managing symptoms and when to call your
doctor.
Paracetamol / Panadol Warning Paracetamol
damages the liver and the damage is adds up and excessive damage is
irreversible leading to a slow and painful death so be very careful
to follow the recommended dosage on the packet. Ibuprofen appears to
be much safer but still follow the recommended dosage on the packet.
The US government CDC
(local
copy here) says a Cough
or Shortness of
breath or difficulty
breathing
AND
at
least two (2) of the following
Fever
Chills
Repeated
shaking with chills
Muscle pain
Headache
Sore throat
New
loss of taste or smell
can appear 2
to 14 days after exposure to COVID-19. The CDC stresses that this
list is not all-inclusive.
Covid Toes (local copy here) are also being reported. These are chilblain like rashes on the toes
Three symptoms to start self-isolation – A dry cough, A high temperature, Shortness of breath (local copy here)
Patients can have “breathing fast, .. relatively minimal apparent distress, despite dangerously low oxygen levels and terrible pneumonia on chest X-rays.” (local copy here) “Patients compensate for the low oxygen in their blood by breathing faster and deeper — and this happens without their realizing it. This (is) silent hypoxia ..” “By the time patients have noticeable trouble breathing and present to the hospital with dangerously low oxygen levels, many will ultimately require a ventilator.” “All patients who have tested positive for the coronavirus should have pulse oximetry monitoring for two weeks, the period during which Covid pneumonia typically develops. All persons with cough, fatigue and fevers should also have pulse oximeter monitoring even if they have not had virus testing, or even if their swab test was negative, because those tests are only about 70 percent accurate.”
Patients with severe cases are more likely to have
shortness of breath, difficulty breathing, and fluid in their lungs.
Mild cases can develop into severe cases if the viral infections in
patients’ respiratory tracts worsen.
Critical cases will
need medical care from a hospital, often in the Intensive Care Unit.
These patients can exhibit respiratory failure, septic shock, and
organ failure.
You can purchase relatively inexpensive finger blood oxygen meters (search for “pulse oximeters” or “SpO2 monitors”) They are not particularly accurate, but if you check daily, they can alert you to a drop in your blood oxygen from what your reading usually is. This can be an early indication that you have contracted the coronavirus and that it is effecting your lungs.
I am taking my temperature every morning and checking my blood oxygen using an SpO2 monitor.
A
phase2, open-label, randomised controlled trial reported in the
lancet (local
copy here) shows
that:-
“We
have shown that the inhaled glucocorticoid budesonide, given for a
short duration, might be an effective treatment of early COVID-19 in
adults. This effect, with a relative reduction of 91% of clinical
deterioration is equivalent to the efficacy seen after the use of
COVID-19 vaccines and greater than that reported
in any treatments used in hospitalised patients and patients with
severe COVID-19”
A small scale study (local copy here) found that a 3-month period of quercetin supplementation reduced to incidence of symptomatic COVID and reduce the duration of a COVID infection. Another paper (local copy here) discusses the current evidence supporting the use of quercetin + Vitamin C for the treatment of COVID
The
USA
NIH has a page summarising Covid treatments. (local
copy of Adjunctive Therapies -- Zinc VitD, Vit C here as at 3rd
Oct
2020, so now very out-of-date)
Note: The almost all the Covid
studies referenced and summarized concern sever cases that are
admitted to hospital. NIH is undecided about the effectiveness of
VitD and VitC in sever hospitalized cases and wary about Zinc
supplemention. My aim here is to not get to the sever stage of Covid
so I am working on having a healthy diet before hand and boosting my
intake if I show symptoms.
Vit
C – The NIH says there is “insufficient data .. to
recommend either for or against the use of vitamin C for the
treatment of COVID-19 in non-critically ill patients” Their
reason is “Because patients who are not critically ill with
COVID-19 are less likely to experience oxidative stress or severe
inflammation, there is no compelling reason to use vitamin C in this
setting.” However this reference
notes (local copy)
“ vitamin C has
been shown to reduce the severity and duration of pneumonia, …
Another meta-analysis found that vitamin C reduced the duration of
mechanical ventilation in ICU patients. ... The implementation of
high-dose vitamin C treatment can significantly reduce the demand for
high-dose corticosteroids, antibiotics, and antiviral drugs, as these
drugs may have the effects of immunosuppression, adrenal suppression
and toxicity, complicating the course of the disease”
As
noted below there does not appear to be any downside to using high
dose Vit C to support body's defences. As a side note “Vitamin
C is currently established as the most efficacious preventative
therapy for the development of CRPS and is commonly used
perioperatively following extremity surgery.” (ref)
(local copy)
Vit
D – A large percentage of the population are deficient in
Vit D (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_D_deficiency).
So some controlled sun exposure or VitD supplement seems reasonable
to maintain general health. If in doubt ask your doctor for a test.
Zinc
– The NIH is wary about supplemental Zinc which is why I am
including Oysters in my diet as a natural source as opposed to
supplements.
Does Virus Dose or Load Predict How Sick You Get With COVID-19? reports how epidemiological data from cruise ships and meat packing works indicates that masks could reduce viral inoculum (ingested virus) -- and as a result, decrease the severity of illness. So while health authorities have been promoting wearing masks to prevent asymptomatic Covid carries from infecting others, there is anecdotal evidence that wearing a mask can reduce your exposure the viral infection and the severity of your illness. That is you get a small dose that you body's defences can handle.
Wearing a mask is generally recommended when dealing with a known Covid suffer. The problem is that when you go out you do not know who as has Covid and is asymptomatic. So wearing a mask is a wise general precaution. Here in Australia, where here are so few cases circulating in the community, the health authorities are not recommending you wear a mask. However I still wear one when I go out or when someone comes to the door.
I use a simple flat disposable expanding mask (not the N95 ones) and bake in the oven for 30mins at 80 degC and reuse it. Cloth masks you can wash on a hot cycle and put on the line in the sun. Remember the aim here is not to completely sterilise the mask to avoid viral contamination, just to reduce the level of viral load to a level the body's natural defences can handle.
High dose Vitamin C is the safest, most effective, home treatment available. High dose Vitamin C is already being used in China (Wuhan) and New York as part of the treatment protocol for Coronavirus. See the Shanghai Medical Association protocol (google translated version here) and the NewYork Post report (local copy here) and the report in The Sun (local copy here) These hospitals are giving Intravenous Vitamin C in doses of 6 grams to 10 or more grams per day and a number of clinical trails (e.g. NCT03680274, NCT04264533, NCT04323514, NCT04344184) have been started testing 10gm and 24gm/day of vitamin C, for up to 7 days, on Covid-19 patients. Liposomal Vitamin C is the home alternative which is more effective than IV Vitamin C gram for gram. (local copy here)
There are large number of papers on using Vitamin C for virus-induced respiratory infections. For example, “The effectiveness of vitamin C in preventing and relieving the symptoms of virus-induced respiratory infections” (local summary copy here) used 6 grams initially (1gm / hr) when symptoms were reported and then 3 grams daily there after. Overall, reported flu and cold symptoms in the test group decreased 85% compared with the control group after the administration of megadose Vitamin C. A review of 21 placebo-controlled studies (local copy here) on using >=1gm/daily Vitamin C showed that Vitamin C reduced the duration of episodes and the severity of the symptoms of the common cold by an average of 23%
While it does not appear that high dose Vitamin C will prevent me catching the virus, “Certainly, when it comes to infections or a virus such as flu, it is accepted that vitamin C is part of the immune response and quickly becomes depleted. It helps by encouraging the production of white blood cells that fight disease, attaching themselves to, and killing, invading microbes.” (The Daily Mail) (local copy here)
So I will only be taking High Dose Vitamin C while I am actually fighting off the Coronavirus. Otherwise I will continue with a healthy diet with a whole Orange a day and only a small supplement of Vitamin C, 500mg (0.5gms) to 1000mg (1gms) daily.
High Dose Vitamin C has only three documented side effects, diarrhea or nausea which is not dangerous, a risk of kidney stones that does not apply in this case, and iron accumulation for a few individuals which can be avoided by changing the diet. It is practically impossible to hit the LD50 [median lethal dose] of vitamin C in humans which is 770,000 mg (770 grams or ¾ Kg).
The most common symptoms of excessive vitamin C intake are diarrhea and nausea. (local copy here). This is the body's way of letting me know it has enough Vitamin C and is getting rid of the rest.
For healthy people, 2 grams a day of Vitamin C is about the limit, however when ill, the body becomes deficient in Vitamin C and will accept much more, 12 grams or more a day. Dosages of up to 30grams a day have been reported without diarrhea or nausea. (Cathcart RF. Vitamin C, titrating to bowel tolerance, anascorbemia,and acute induced scurvy. Med Hypotheses 7: 1359-1376, 1981). The symptoms of diarrhea or nausea are a guide as to when my body has had enough Vitamin C.
Consuming too much vitamin C has the potential to increase the amount of oxalate in your urine, thus increasing the risk of developing kidney stones. (local copy here). However the point to note here is Excess vitamin C is excreted from the body as oxalate When my body needs the extra Vitamin C there will be little or no excess to excrete as oxalate and so no risk of developing kidney stones over the few weeks I will be taking high dose for.
This study from New Zealand (local copy here) followed 157 adults for 12 months after they had been given treatments of high dose (15 grams to 25grams) IV Vitamin C combined with 1 to 2 grams oral. No renal stones were reported by any patients in the study, despite 8% of the patients having a history of renal stones. It should be noted that all the subjects where receiving the Vitamin C treatment for medical conditions, i.e. their bodies needed the Vitamin C and so did not excrete it.
Individuals with conditions that increase the risk of iron accumulation in the body, such as hemochromatosis, should be cautious with vitamin C supplements because Vitamin C binds with non-heme iron, making it much easier for your body to absorb. (local copy here). If I had that condition, I would consult with my doctor and modify my diet to reduce my dietary iron intake for the few weeks I was taking high doses of Vitamin C.
Individuals taking medications should consult with their doctor as Vitamin C is contra indicated in some cases. In particular Vitamin C interferes with chemotherapy drugs by diminishes their effectiveness at destroying cells. Individuals who are pregnant, young children, and anyone taking blood thinning medications should discuss vitamin C therapy with their doctor before beginning although you will find that most doctors have very little experience with this protocol. Individuals who have the inherited glucose-6-phosphate dehydrogenase (G6PD) deficiency should also consult their doctor.
Update: A large
randomized study in the UK (local
copy here) finds Hydroxychloroquine showed no benefit.
Update:
The WHO
discontinues the trial of hydroxychloroquine and lopinavir/ritonavir
for use with COVID-19
Update: The USA FDA has withdrawn the
emergency approval (local
copy here) of hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine for use with
COVID-19 based on the results of various trials.
Update: A large
study in UK (local
copy here) “concluded that there is no beneficial effect of
hydroxychloroquine in patients hospitalised with COVID-19.”
Update: A
Lancet paper (local
copy here) reports that coronavirus patients who took
hydroxychloroquine or its related drug chloroquine were more likely
to die or develop an irregular heart rhythm that can lead to sudden
cardiac death, compared to those who did nothing.
Unlike Vitamin C, Hydroxychloroquine is very dangerous and has a long list of dangerous side effects, more than can readily listed here. See this link for the side effects of hydroxychloroquine (a local copy here).
Hydroxychloroquine has also had adverse results when used to treat coronavirus. A report by the Guardian (local copy here) noted “patients who were treated with the (hydroxychloroquine) drugs fought off coronavirus no more quickly than those who didn’t get it. Indeed, one patient given hydroxychloroquine severely worsened in condition while four patients on the medicine developed signs of liver damage” and “it shouldn’t be used by anyone with the exception of 'serious forms of hospitalization and on the collegial decision of doctors and under strict medical supervision' ”. Another study using hydroxychloroquine to treat Coronavirus (local copy here) has been halted due to patients developing “heart rhythm problems, and trends suggested more deaths were occurring in that group”.
A recent study (local copy here) (SMH report, local copy here) (CNBC report, local copy here) “found no evidence that use of hydroxychloroquine, either with or without azithromycin, reduced the risk of mechanical ventilation in patients hospitalized with Covid-19.” More over an “increased overall mortality was identified in patients treated with hydroxychloroquine alone.” That is patients given hydroxychloroquine were more likely to die. Also the researchers did not track hydroxychloroquine’s side effects, which can be significant.
So I would not take hydroxychloroquine if it was offered to me. (However it improves the absorption of Zinc, see below, but there are other less toxic alternatives.)
There is “some evidence that zinc has some antiviral activity” (local copy here). However then main reason I am including zinc is that it appears that the Coronavirus ejects the iron molecule from the red blood cells, which then causes the observed low oxygen levels in patients, and that the free iron uses up the body's zinc reserves which results in the loss of smell and/or taste. Zinc supplementation stimulates the red blood cell formation (in rats) (local copy here) so taking a zinc supplement should help replace those red blood cells made inactive by the virus as well as restoring the zinc levels depleted by the free iron.
This effect of the virus on the red blood cells helps explain why there is interest in anti-malaria medicines. Zinc supplements are commonly prescribed in association with anti-malaria treatments.
The recommended dosing for the common cold is “One zinc gluconate or acetate lozenge, providing 4.5-24 mg elemental zinc, dissolved in the mouth every two hours while awake when cold symptoms are present.” However for loss of taste/smell, “140-450 mg of zinc gluconate in up to three divided doses daily”
This article has references for the general benefits of zinc (local copy here)
Zinc is LIKELY SAFE for most adults when taken by mouth in amounts not larger than 40 mg daily. Routine zinc supplementation is not recommended. Single doses of 10-30 grams of zinc can be fatal. See also the Special Precautions & Warnings: which lists a number of common conditions that result in low zinc. If I was taking any medications I would check with my doctor. Some antibiotic and rheumatoid arthritis medications need to take separately from the zinc. i.e. the zinc needs to be take 2hrs prior.
This page from the US Dept of Health discusses Zinc. Oysters are a high natural source of Zinc. 85gm of oysters provide approx. 74mg of Zinc.
The zinc supplement I will take is oysters split over three meals to restore the reserves depleted by the action of the virus and help replace those red blood cells made inactive by the virus. Initially 100mg daily (split over 3 meals) at the onset and then more if the virus symptoms are severe and/or I loose my sense of taste/smell. Supplemental Zinc in large doses does have side effects it can inhibit copper absorption so I will only be taking these extra quantities while I am recovering. However Oysters are also high in copper. For now I am eating 100gm tin of Oysters a few times a week in expectation of catching Covid
Zinc can be difficult to absorb. Quercetin assists in the uptake of zinc (as does hydroxychloroquine which may explain the why it was reported as a COVID treatment. However due to hydroxychloroquine's side effects, noted above, I will be avoiding it)
Recent reports suggest that lying on your stomach makes breathing much easier. There are reports of blood oxygen stats going from 69%-85% (low) to 94% (95% is normal) just by rolling the patient over from their back on to lying on their stomach for 5mins (What Doctors on the Front Lines Wish They’d Known a Month Ago) (local copy here). By using prone lying, 75% of the patients avoided the need to be put on a ventilator. In that reported case the patients where put on pregnancy mattresses with cut outs for the tummy and head. This is now being taught to Australian Hospital staff (local copy here).
Prone side lying has long been used by chest physiotherapists. Using larger pillows, larger than shown below, to raise the upper body may be more comfortable.
I will be lying pone either on my stomach or ¾ side while recovering from the coronavirus.
My personal experience is that sugar and sugary foods, e.g. soft drinks, sweets, candy, sweet biscuits/cakes, etc, encourage virus and bacterial infections. After decades of sore throats and sinus infections, I found they disappeared once I radically reduced my sugar intake.
So I will be avoiding sugar (not even a little chocolate) while recovering from the conronavirus.
Vitamin C for home use comes in a number forms. Ascorbic Acid, Sodium Ascorbate, Calcium Ascorbate and the Liposomal versions of these. The Liposomal form is Vitamin C emulsified with Lecithin. Of these I will avoid Calcium Ascorbate as it can lead to a Calcium overload. That leaves Ascorbic Acid and Sodium Ascorbate and their Liposomal versions.
I will be making my own Liposomal Vitamin C using Sodium Ascobate, see the recipe below. It is also available commercially, but is expensive.
In order of increasing effectiveness per gram,
the types of Vitamin C are:-
Ascorbic Acid (acidic)
Sodium
Ascorbate. (buffered/non-acidic) You can make your own Sodium
Ascorbate from Ascobic Acid and Baking Soda. See How
to Make Sodium Ascorbate At Home (local
copy here)
Liposomal Ascorbic Acid (acidic, more effective
than IV Vitamin C). See recipe below
Liposomal Sodium Ascorbate.
(non-acidic, more effective than IV Vitamin C). See recipe below
Ascorbic Acid and Sodium Ascorbate are not a readily absorbed as their liposomal version so I would need to take more of them. Increasing the daily amount until I get diarrhea or nausea and then back off a little
If all I had was Ascorbic Acid or Sodium
Ascorbate, and I did not have any Lecithin to make the Liposomal
verions, I would start with 6 to 8 grams mixed in water until it
completely dissolves. Store in a dark place and drink through out the
day. For Ascorbic Acid I would use a straw to protect my teeth from
the acid. The body needs to work harder to neutralize the acidity of
Ascorbic Acid, so Sodium Ascobate is preferred. See How
to Make Sodium Ascorbate At Home (local
copy here)
In my case I
will be using Lecithin to make Liposomal Sodium Ascorbate, and when I
contract the virus I will start with 15gm (12gm equiv Vitamin C)
daily and continue while there are virus symptoms
Stock up with 2-3 weeks of food and any medication I need so I don't have to go out while ill
Stock up with ~250grams Sodium Ascorbate and ~500grams lecithin (from Sunflowers, see below for alternatives), per person, to take high dose Liposomal Vitamin C daily for 2 to 3 weeks while I have the virus and sufficient zinc tables.
Liposomal Vitamin C is Vitamin C emulisfied with Lecithin in the ratio of 1 to 2.2 by weight. That is 12grams Ascorbic Acid to 26grams Lecithin, or 15grams Sodium Ascorbate to 33grams Lecithin. Either Sunflower Lecithin powder, preferred, or Soy Lecithin granules can be used. Some people have an allergy to one or the other of these types of Lecithin.
There are a number recipes for making your own liposomal Vitamin C, e.g. How to Make Liposomal Vitamin C At Home (local copy here) or search for “liposomal vitamin c recipe” Commercial liposomal Vitamin Cs contain alcohol, so some of the recipes replace some of the water with Vodka.
Below is the recipe I use. I use a blender and an ultra sonic cleaner, but it can be made with just a blender. Vitamin C is destroyed by sunlight so I keep it and the any mixture I make in a dark place.
15gm Sodium Ascorbate (or alternatively 12gm Ascorbic
Acid)
33gm Lecithin (26gm Lecithin for 12gm Ascorbic Acid)
Water
390mL (preferably distilled) (alternatively 110mL Vodka and 280mL
water for 12% alcohol)
Glass container to hold 500mL
If using Lecithin granules, I soak them in some of
the water for 2hrs (in say 120mL water of the 390mL total)
Dissolve
the Vitamin C in the remaining water in the glass container.
Add
the dissolved Vitamin C and Lecithin to the blender and blend on slow
speed for 2mins. Remove and place in fridge.
If not using an
ultra sonic cleaner, I re-blend 4 or 5 times cooling the mixture down
in the fridge between each blend.
If using an ultra sonic cleaner,
place the jar with the blended mixture in the cleaner surrounded by
water and run for 3 mins x 5 times, shaking between each run.
I store the mixture in the fridge to be consume through the day with extra water a needed. I would actually make a few days worth at a time as it keeps in the fridge for a week or so.
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